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Torchwood by stopwatch

Last week I was stuck at home with  no car while dh was out of town.  I decided I needed some light mental exercise and an excuse to re-watch Torchwood so I figured out how much sceentime each main character got per episode.   This is a compilation of the posts I wrote about my experience on OG:

While it might have been more fun, I didn't use an actual stopwatch.  I have Winamp (sorriest blanketty-blank excuse for a viewing program you ever saw -- excuse me, I'm not happy about the "latest innovation"), a pencil, and a piece of paper. The timer is set to count backwards. I pause the screen when someone enters or leaves the stage and write down the number in their column. After it's all over with, I do a bunch of time-table subtracting, then a bunch of time-table adding.

I'm blocking it as if it were a stage play. I start counting when the actor "enters" the "stage" and stop when he or she "exits". If the camera is swinging back and forth between actors but everyone is still present, I count the temporarily out-of-shot actors as still "on stage" unless the camera pauses for a long, significant "close-up" that could be filmed without the other actors present. I also don't bother to take out the music breaks if the show comes back to the same actors. So there's a built-in margin of error, but the proportions should be right.


Everything Changes by RTD

Gwen - 33:03

Jack - 21:35

Suzie - 13:39

Tosh - 12:42

Owen - 11:24

Ianto - 2:21

Gwen had the longest single block, being on screen for a whopping 29:34 at the start.

Tosh is a lot more prominent than I thought. She beat out Owen in the first episode. Granted she's often working in the background, but she's still in the scenes.

Day One by Chris Chibnall.

Gwen - 35:16

Jack - 26:30

Tosh - 22:45

Owen - 19:54

Ianto - 4:34

Once again, Tosh beats out Owen. And Ianto doubles his screen time from 01.

Ghost Machine by Helen Raynor

Gwen - 33:46

Owen - 26:38

Jack - 22:35

Tosh - 13:05

Ianto: 2:44

Owen has more screentime than Jack, but it's Owen's episode. Ianto slips back down to just under 3 minutes. I have a feeling CC is more equal with screentime than the others.

Originally Posted by Twhylight View Post
Three episodes in and Ianto dosen't even have 10 minutes in. Boy, they were keeping him in the background for Ep 4.
Weren't they, though! Before the intro he gets 7:44. That's more than he did in the first two episodes combined!

Cyberwoman by CC

Ianto - 30:03

Gwen - 24:36

Jack - 22:06

Owen - 18:38

Tosh - 15:03


Small Worlds by P. J. Hammond

Jack - 21:38

Gwen - 19:21

Tosh - 7:39

Owen - 5:45

Ianto - 1:33

It's the Jack and Gwen show, now with 2/3rds less Owen and Tosh, and half as much Ianto! The guest stars racked up a lot of time in this episode so everyone's overal time is down. Jack has more time than Gwen for the first time, but it's his episode. Tosh beats out Owen again as she has done in 3 of the 5 episodes. Owen clocks in at one minute over Ianto's time in Day One.



Countrycide by CC

Gwen - 27:14

Tosh - 22:12

Jack - 20:00

Owen - 19:02

Ianto - 18:37

Toshiko comes in second this episode. We could call Countrycide a "Gwen and Tosh" story, instead of a "Gwen" story. This makes 4 out of 6 episodes where Tosh has more time than Owen. Jack comes in third as he did in Cyberwoman, another CC story. Ianto comes in last again, but he's only 30 seconds behind Owen and 90 seconds behind Jack. His time would be respectable for Owen or Tosh in most other episodes. This is the most even the times have ever been, beating out Cyberwoman, another CC story. (I think we're seeing a trend here.) I figured we'd see more of Ianto in CC's stories, but the rest of the variations surprised me.

Greeks Bearing Gifts by Toby Whithouse

Tosh - 41:06

Jack - 10:58

Gwen - 10:46

Owen - 9:32

Ianto - 1:25

Who would have thought quiet little Tosh had it in her to so dominate the screen? She now has the highest overall score for a single episode and the highest score for continuous screen time at 31:37, beating Gwen's record of 29:34 from Everything Changes. Gwen is in third place for the first time, in a tight cluster with Jack and Owen. Ianto reaches a new low.  And for 5 out of 7 episodes Tosh has more time than Owen.




They Keep Killing Suzie by Tomalin/McCullough (but it looks/sounds/smells/acts like an RTD)

Jack - 32:40

Gwen - 31:25

Owen - 21:22

Tosh - 17:22

Ianto - 14:31

You can tell this is a "Jack" episode because it's only the second time he's got more screentime than Gwen; the other time was Small Worlds. Owen beats out Tosh for the third time out of 8 episodes. Ianto still has the least time, but at 14:31 it's respectable. Sure beats the under-two minute episodes he's had before.

I made some notes about the way Ianto is staged in this episode which I've posted seperately here.


Random Shoes by Jaquetta May

Gwen - 40:35

Owen -- 4:07

Jack -- 2:54

Tosh -- 2:06

Ianto -- 1:02

AKA "The Gwen Show".


Out of Time by Cathy Treganna

Owen - 19:04

Jack - 15:30

Gwen - 11:17

Ianto - 2:48

Tosh - 1:38

Owen takes the lead, followed by Jack. Gwen falls to third place for the second time this series. Tosh falls to last place for the second time. Ianto has his longest scene so far outside of Cyberwoman.  Tosh has a better time than Owen in 5 out of 9 episodes; he's almost caught up with her.

Combat by Noel Clarke

Owen - 23:06

Jack -- 14:13

Gwen - 11:23

Tosh -- 9:13

Ianto -- 6:07

Owen comes in first. Jack in second. Gwen comes in third again. Tosh makes a rare appearance at fourth, and Ianto makes the best time of his single-digit figues so far.  Tosh and Owen tie for best time between them.

Captain Jack Harkness by Cathy Treganna

Jack - 24:11

Tosh - 17:25

Owen - 9:34

Ianto - 7:54

Gwen - 6:10

And now that we no longer need her services as an introductory point, Gwen takes her turn on the bottom of the list.


End of Days by CC

Gwen - 30:24

Jack -- 22:59

Ianto - 19:05

Tosh -- 15:97

Owen - 14:00

Gwen comes in first again with Jack second again. Ianto comes in a very respectable third, claiming the middle for the first time. Owen, in his usual position behind Tosh, comes in last for the first time.

Twhylight on OG totaled them up for me.  Here's her figures:

.... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....Gwen.... Jack.... Tosh.... Owen.... Ianto
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything Changes by RTD.................................| 33:03 | 21:35 | 12:42 | 11:24 | 02:21 |
Day One by Chris Chibnall......................................| 35:16 | 26:30 | 22:45 | 19:54 | 04:34 |
Ghost Machine by Helen Raynor.............................| 33:46 | 22:35 | 13:05 | 26:38 | 02:44 |
Cyberwoman by CC ............................................ | 24:36 | 22:06 | 15:03 | 18:38 | 30:03 |
Small Worlds by P. J. Hammond ........................... | 19:21 | 21:38 | 07:39 | 05:45 | 01:33 |
Countrycide by CC .............................................. | 27:14 | 20:00 | 22:12 | 19:02 | 18:37 |
Greeks Bearing Gifts by Toby Whithouse...............| 10:46 | 10:58 | 41:06 | 09:32 | 01:25 |
They Keep Killing Suzie by Tomalin/McCullough.... | 31:25 | 32:40 | 17:22 | 21:22 | 14:31|
Random Shoes by Jaquetta May............................ | 40:35 | 02:54 | 02:06 | 04:07 | 01:02 |
Out of Time by Cathy Treganna............................. | 11:17 | 15:30 | 01:38 | 19:04 | 02:48 |
Combat by Noel Clarke......................................... | 11:23 | 14:13 | 09:13 | 23:06 | 06:07 |
Captain Jack Harkness by Cathy Treganna .......... | 06:10 | 24:11 | 17:25 | 09:34 | 07:54 |
End of Days by CC............................................... | 30:24 | 22:59 | 16:37| 14:00 | 19:05 |
================================================== ===========
TOTALS............................................ .......... |05:03:43|04:18:00|03:18:53|03:46:10|01.52:44 |




It's way too late at night to work up the actual averages, but here are the weighted rankings. In this chart 5 has the most time and 1 the least:

Actors //Gwen//Jack//Tosh//Owen//Ianto
Episodes
1 ----//5//////4//////3//////2///////1

2----//5//////4//////3//////2///////1

3---//5//////3//////2//////4///////1

4--//4//////3//////1///////2///////5

5--//4/////5//////3///////2///////1

6--//5/////3/////4///////2///////1

7--//3////4/////5///////2///////1

8--//4///5/////2///////3///////1

9--//5///3////2////////4///////1

10-//3///4////1///////5///////2

11-//3///4////2//////5///////1

12-//1///5////4//////3///////2

13-//5///4////2/////1////////3

Average weighted ranking:

Gwen - 4

Jack - 3.5

Tosh - 2.6

Owen - 2.8

Ianto - 1.6


ETA:  Here's the average minutes/episode based on Twylight's totals:

Gwen - 23.3 minutes/episode

Jack - 19.8 minutes/episode

Owen - 17.4 minutes/episode

Tosh - 15.3 minutes/episode

Ianto -- 8.7 minutes/episode



ETA:  Teaspoon is deleting their entire nonfiction section in 10 minutes.  Boo!  I'm archiving my reviews here.

alienstar072007.12.31 - 07:03PM1: Chapter 1Signed
I read this on OG, but it suprised me that in a lot of eps Tosh had more time than Owen.

Author's Response: The difference is that Tosh did not call attention to herself by misbehaving. Owen did.

NavyGiraffes2007.10.17 - 08:39PM1: Chapter 1Signed
I think the really strange thing about this, is that everyone loves Ianto, it seems, and nobody likes Owen, and not a lot of people seem to like Gwen. I sure don't. Compared to the numbers you have here, it really doesn't add up. I'm not saying your numbers are wrong, I'm just saying it's very odd the way it's turned out. You should do one for Doctor Who, comparing Rose and Martha screentime or something. Just a suggestion.

Author's Response: It's not odd when you think about it. Ianto never did anything really objectionable when he was onscreen, unlike Gwen and Owen, who one quite often wanted to slap upside the head.

wmr2007.10.05 - 04:17PM1: Chapter 1Signed
...and this explains why I'm so 'meh' and even 'no, thanks' about Torchwood. I can't stand Gwen or Owen. I only watched it for Jack but, while he gets a respectable amount of screen time, he's only the lead character in two or three episodes. I came to like Tosh, but there are only two episodes where she carries any kind of a decent story. Ianto - the little we saw of him - comes across as underdeveloped (and now I know why!) and whiny, and his sudden switch from wanting to kill Jack to shagging him is never explained (again, due to insufficient screen time).

It's far, far too much the Gwen show for my liking, with occasions when it's the Owen Show or the Gwen 'n' Owen show. No thanks. :(

Author's Response: I wouldn't call Ianto's decision 'sudden". It was built up subtly over several episodes. It never took center stage, but there was a lot going on in the background.

Fire Storm2007.10.05 - 04:14PM1: Chapter 1Signed
I don't watch Torchwood but I read this out of interest.

All I can say is you definately have a lot of time on your hands...
Also, wow. I never knew Ianto was so unpopular!
Very informative :)

Author's Response: LOL Ianto's hardly unpopular! He was just -- sneaky first season.

jekyll2007.10.05 - 03:35PM1: Chapter 1Signed
Very interesting... poor Ianto. Although I have heard he's a bit more a part of the team for the second series.

Author's Response: GDL told Tanerian he's got four times as much script next series.


Tags:

Comments

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crystalshard
Jul. 17th, 2007 06:06 pm (UTC)
*whistles* You really were bored, weren't you? I'm surprised about Tosh - she got more screen time than I'd expected, all told. I still think that Tosh and Ianto were criminally underused, though.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:06 pm (UTC)
I can get really creative at avoiding real work. :)

I'm surprised at Tosh as well. I guess we didn't notice her so much because she was saying/doing useful things instead of being a twat. Yes Owen, I'm looking at you.
omphalos
Jul. 17th, 2007 06:06 pm (UTC)
This is very interesting. (I like stats, *grin*)

It says something for Gareth's screen presence that I would never have said his screen time was quite so much lower than the others, other than in the pre-Cyberwoman episodes.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:07 pm (UTC)
He makes the most of what he gets.
fajrdrako
Jul. 17th, 2007 06:34 pm (UTC)
How did you time each one? Multiple viewings? Did you get friends to help? This is amazing!

And extremely interesting.

My thought: more Jack. We need more Jack time. Really! Much more!

Second thought: I want more Ianto, but that's no surprise, I've always wanted more Ianto. I want more Tosh, too.

Owen, as it turns out, gets less screen time than I thought he did: I've always thought of him as being onscreen way too much, because I don't like him so much. And he does get too much screen time, in my opinion, but he isn't as far off Tosh's time as I thought he'd be.
tigercheetah
Jul. 17th, 2007 06:44 pm (UTC)
I was also surprised that Owen didn't get that much more screentime than Tosh. However I wasn't surprised that Gwen got more screentime than Jack overall. That was just plain wrong!!

More Ianto Pleeeeeeze!!
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tiggerbrasilf
Jul. 17th, 2007 06:45 pm (UTC)
That is still a good excuse for rewatching it all, and a lot can be said for low tech methods (: It'd be nice if it could be more balanced but at least they all got an opportunity to feature lots. We'll have to wait and see what the new series brings (:
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:13 pm (UTC)
They don't have the same excuse to give Gwen most of the attention or the same excuse for Ianto to avoid attention anymore.
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hinsoullai
Jul. 17th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC)
Oh God, Gwen's got the most screentime. Unbelievable yet so typical, I always thought that there was too much Gwen in S1, which led me to dislike her. And don't even get me started on Ianto's [lack of] screentime! I really hope Tosh and Ianto are used more in S2, I love them.

And yay, curing boredom with Torchwood is awesome.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:16 pm (UTC)
Tosh and Ianto have been seen at every group location shot. Tosh also had a solo shoot, and Jack and Ianto had a Weevil-hunting shoot.
lady_entropy17
Jul. 17th, 2007 07:58 pm (UTC)
You're kind of insane for doing this but I love you deeply for it
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:02 pm (UTC)
Aww, I'm Ten! ;) Thank you.
documents
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:22 pm (UTC)
Wow. For a show supposedly about Captain Jack Harkness, we sure don't see a lot of him as opposed to Gwen. That's kind of... pathetic.

Thank you for doing this, though. It's so interesting to see the numbers in front of you. Ianto is severely underused and I hope the writers take advantage of Gareth for season two since he (er, hopefully) isn't being planned to be killed off. And more Jack! It is, after all, his show. Or so we were sold on that thought.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:28 pm (UTC)
It looks like we'll be getting a lot more Jack, in more ways than one! And also a lot more Ianto, hopefully in more ways than one. ;)
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crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:31 pm (UTC)
I am thorn between being amazed and creeped out...

That's me, the amazing creepy Goth Geek! :D

I love CC too. In fact he's what got me started on this. I suspected that he and CT were more equitable with the times than the other writers were.
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galaxy_song
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC)
lol some ones making good use of a stop watch. this just tells me that Ianto needs much more screen time Tosh has more than I thought but this was intresting to read
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:58 pm (UTC)
Thank you.
gallifaerie
Jul. 17th, 2007 08:42 pm (UTC)
You are extremely thorough, but this is very interesting **ponders** Let's hope for more Ianto, and hopefully a more even distribution of on-screen time.

Oh, and *obviously* more Jack :)
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 09:28 pm (UTC)
Thank you. And more Jack and Ianto together wouldn't hurt. With innuendo. And kissing. And lube.
unfeathered
Jul. 17th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
This is exactly the sort of detailed stats I record, when I have time, which I don't any more.

Absolutely fascinating.

And it definitely explains why I felt shortchanged watching Torchwood. I tuned in solely because of Captain Jack - I've been a Barrowman fan for a long time and the prospect of seeing him every week, and as such a wonderful character, is what brought me to Torchwood.

And what did I get? Gwen. I don't hate Gwen, but I did get tired of her, and very frustrated when what I wanted was more Jack!

Thank you for doing this. I know it wasn't just in my head now!
crabby_lioness
Jul. 17th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)
You're welcome. :)
amythest_n_ice
Jul. 17th, 2007 11:52 pm (UTC)
which just goes to prove that there is entirely TOO MUCH Gwen. Silly me, but I thought it was meant to be Jack's show. He's the alien expert, he's the one stranded on Earth trying to sort his life out.

Besides, if Gwen wasn't such a nosey hypocritical slut she wouldn't have nearly so much screen time. If you took out where she was:

a)sticking her neb somwhere it didn't belong,

b)ranting at someone who had offended her somewhat dubious moral code and

c)snogging, shagging or making eyes at someone other than her fiance, she would probably get less screen time than Ianto, or for that matter, Rhys.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 02:21 am (UTC)
I rather liked her fall actually. It's the sort of overestimation of one's abilities you usually see in movies, not in a leading lady on a TV show. It warmed the cockles of my cynical heart.
jedinic
Jul. 18th, 2007 01:27 am (UTC)
I found this fascinating! (And can't believe how much work you put into it.) Who wouldda thought Ianto had SO LITTLE screen time?
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 02:23 am (UTC)
Thank you. He did a lot with a little, didn't he?
donutsweeper
Jul. 18th, 2007 02:29 am (UTC)
OMG this is incredible. What a wonderful way to avoid real work! (And you actually sat through 'Random shoes' again on purpose!) I'm shocked Gwen has SO much screen time, she seemed like she was on a lot in the first two episodes, but since we were 'seeing' torchwood through her newbie's eyes it made sense.. the fact it continued doesn't though. Why am I not suprised that Gwen has the least amount of time in my favorite episode?
Kudos and donuts for all your hard work!
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:41 pm (UTC)
Thank you.
msp_hacker
Jul. 18th, 2007 03:12 am (UTC)
I wonder if people would like Owen more if he was shown doing more doctor-y type things, and undercover work.

Actually, if everyone was shown doing their jobs, and getting similar screen time to Countrycide, it would be better. Plus more Myfanwy.
donutsweeper
Jul. 18th, 2007 04:14 am (UTC)
Ooh definately more Myfanwy! I love Love LOVE your avatar!!!
But I agree I would have liked to see more of Owen in doctor-mode
silverdragon262
Jul. 18th, 2007 05:02 am (UTC)
You are amazing-- and a little bit frightening, but that's okay. :) This entire post is fascinating. It's interesting to see it laid out in numbers. There's so much variation in a five-person cast; I'm hoping more than ever that season two evens this out.

And oddly enough, my favourite episode has always been Countrycide, for reasons that I couldn't articulate. I've had the feeling that it was more of a proper ensemble than most (even though our team isn't shown in the best light)-- I'm glad to see that the numbers support this.

No matter what else can says about CC, he does give us the most Ianto.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 04:20 pm (UTC)
You are amazing-- and a little bit frightening, but that's okay.

My husband thinks you're sweet to say that.

The only problem I had with CC was that his work needed polishing. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with more time for rewrites.
joulez217
Jul. 18th, 2007 08:49 am (UTC)
Erm...firstly wow! You were either really bored to do all this, or just was really needing to get out of something! And I think you broke my brain with all the maths you just put up there, I hate Maths!

Doesn't surprise me that Gwen gets the most screen time really, doesn't surprise me at all. Tosh surprised me though, I mean I hardly thought she was there, kinda like Ianto, she hardly seems to be there!
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 01:25 pm (UTC)
When we see Tosh she's doing useful things that help move the story along. When we see Owen for about the same amount of time he's being a jerk. Guess who gets noticed more?

There's a lesson here unfortunately.
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burntcopper
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:13 pm (UTC)
This is kinda fascinating (yes, also a stats monkey). I'd guessed that Gwen would get more since she tended to be cast as the audience's eyes and ears (how it impacted on a normal person's life, so plenty of shots of her going back to the flat - you rarely see the others much outside the work environment), but the other stuff is definitely interesting. As you said, as she got more assimilated, and they didn't need a pov character so much (and hopefully won't so much in s2 - more jack/tosh/ianto/owen, please), her dominance waned a tad.

I wonder how this compares to Scully's screentime in S1 x-files, considering she was supposed to be the pov character on the nuttiness (s2,this was curtailed by Krycek and the getting abducted factor). Can't really compare with my other fave shows which tend to be ensembles, but I do wonder how it compares with other team shows with main leads such as ugly betty - not so much for how much time the lead gets, but how much time the other named actors get.
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)
Somebody else will have to do the X-Files. Eeew, icky.
ceindreadh
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:37 pm (UTC)
Ma'am, I salute you!
I always knew that Gwen had an excessive amount of screentime, but I never realized just how bad it was.

Let's hope that S2 is a little more fair with it. (although if Jack and Ianto are 5 and 4 over all, I won't be complaining )
crabby_lioness
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:48 pm (UTC)
Thank you. I want to see a lot more of Ianto (in more ways than one) but I don't imagine he will ever stop being a private and reserved person.
stlscape
Jul. 19th, 2007 12:19 pm (UTC)
Thanks for doing the math, CL. I was really surprised to see the character screen times. From the overall memory I have of the entire season (which I've just found and watched), I'd have said Ianto had a good bit more time than he actually does.

I could definitely do with less of Gwen and Owen, I find Jack, Ianto and Tosh much more interesting. (Owen doesn't even have to get hit by an *alien* bus. A Cardiff bus would do the job just fine, IMHO. :-) )

crabby_lioness
Jul. 19th, 2007 03:18 pm (UTC)
You're welcome.
twolefts
Jul. 19th, 2007 04:53 pm (UTC)
Blegh. I say they make it the Jack, Tosh, & Ianto show and Gwen and Owen can show up for maybe a minute or two (but not at all would be preferrable).
lauren_sark
Jul. 21st, 2007 06:22 am (UTC)
You are so adorable. Plain genious, making this. Not entirely surprised by Gwen taking the lead but I was almost shocked by the small amount of Ianto-time :(
pfyre
Sep. 19th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC)
thanks so much for this break down on the characters...

it does support my feeling that Gwen had gotten far too much screen time and Jack no where near enough - SIGH

and I sincerely hope that TPTB will take into account that the majority of the audience tuning is to TW is NOT tuning in for the 'All Gwen Cooper, All The Time' show or 'The Gwen Cooper Adventures' (Sarah Jane Smith - is most definitely NOT)....

now we just have to wait until January to see how things may have changed on the show - though now we're going to be dealing with Martha - sigh
crabby_lioness
Sep. 19th, 2007 08:04 pm (UTC)
Both John and Gareth have said positive things about changes on the show, so I'm hopeful. :)
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masb1987
Sep. 25th, 2007 07:40 pm (UTC)
Wow, this was really interesting. There needs to be more Ianto, less Gwen. I do think, though, that the little time Ianto's on screen, he really steals the scene and gets a lot more across, whereas Gwen's scenes tend to be a lot of the same.
jo02
Oct. 12th, 2007 11:42 am (UTC)
My mind is seriously boggled by the sheer dedication in doing these stats!

But what's even more stunning to my mind is that, based on your stats, it's the 'Gwen Show' and not the 'Captain Jack Show' as I always thought it was. How irritating is that?

I suppose it goes to show that with Gwen you get quantity and with Jack you get quality time.

She's going to be even MORE insufferable (and get more screen time too) if they make good on the rumour that there will be a developing relationship between Jack and Gwen in season 2 (can you REALLY see Jack going for Rhys' AND Owen's sloppy seconds? I know it makes me shudder).
crabby_lioness
Oct. 12th, 2007 02:33 pm (UTC)
I think Gwen has a lot of growing up to do.
(no subject) - jo02 - Oct. 13th, 2007 12:17 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crabby_lioness - Oct. 13th, 2007 02:37 am (UTC) - Expand
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